Fannish entitlement

[gayalondiel_bak]

Hi all

Recently a friend, I will call them Penfold, expressed upset to me about someone on a fandom Kinkmeme saying they weren't going to finish a story because they had run dry on inspiration. The understanding that I got was that Penfold felt cheated for starting a WIP and being deprived of a conclusion.

That really didn't chime with me.  As a writer my biggest work is sitting half finished as of 2008 because I'm not in the place to finish it, and also because I don't think it's very good. Nevertheless people still follow it on FFN, despite the update dates. Should the Kinkmeme writer have to meep working, devoting evenings and weekends of slot to a story she's not attached to anymore, because god knows, when you're not in a good writing place it can be torturous, just because a few people on a website feel she has an obligation to finish? Should I slog through chapter after chapter of a story I don't even like, because I had the temerity to see if there was an audience for the first chapter before writing the next fifteen? should I be justifying myself and a friend for the collab we started posting before both falling ill, or should I just sit quiet until we're ready? Or should I take it down?

It's an old - and somewhat trite - argument in fandom to point out that we're not paid. But seriously, writing claims on our time - housework, reading, tv, films, cat cuddling all get displaced for fanfic in my house. But if I do it out of obligation with no love, then stories I do love and want to tell are less likely to get written. 

Yes, it's unfortunate when they fall by the wayside.  But the kinkmemes are like that - a quicker and less formal sort of writing, and you don't always know where it will take you. Besides which, there are any number of reasons for not writing more that the author may not be stating, because that's her right too

I am writing on the phone and so even more than usual this is pretty incoherent. Nevertheless I am dying to know if I'm the only one who feels that way about it. Between the entitlement of the loyal reader (who is, after all, choosing to read  work in progress) and the right of the author to choose how to pass their free time, where does everyone else draw the line?

(I'd love to get impressions from beyond my flist, if anyone wants to signal boost. Very interested too to hear from Penfolds variously, when it is right or acceptable for a reader to require continuation?)

A final thought: if JKR had got to the end of Half Blood Prince and decided not to write the last Harry Potter, well, I would have gone into hiding because the reaction would have been apocalyptic. But with the exception of her contracted publisher and by extension Time Warner, would any of us have had the right to demand she complete it?

Posted via LiveJournal app for Android.

Comments

[gurthaew.livejournal.com]

JKR says that the first thing she wrote was the very end of Deathly Hallows so that she knew where she was going and could plan a route to get there. In that sense she had a distinct goal to aim for.

If you are writing stories that are evolving constantly the there is no defined end point and it will depend on your mood and feelings etc. at the time you write.

Two different methods for two different people. Don't get pushed into writing something just for the sake of someone else, let it flow from your creativity as and when it can.

Have a hug, hugs to the furry ones and tons of love to Great Uncle Humbert.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

That's a good approach, the first one, and I do try to plot in broad strokes for my own fic. Kinkememes though are a very different beast in that they're a very immediate kind of writing where you are presented with a scenario and the number of question marks in place of total chapter numbers suggest that a pornography writers take the second route in that scenario. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, but questioning whether it is right for the reader to demand completion (in either case). Even if JKR had finished the last novel, choosing not to publish would ultimately have been her right, no?

GUH sends his best. He is very confused by the young lion cubs who keep knocking him over. xx

[tearelateddream.livejournal.com]

Personally, no I don't think anyone should be forced to finish something they can't face writing, for whatever reason. Life has wonderful ways of throwing curveballs at us, and when RL is a pain, it can hugely impact the ability to write.

If anyone's desperate for the end to a story, can't they try writing their own? Isn't that at least a little bit of the point of fanfic anyway - to tie up loose ends?

*gets off her soapbox and hides under a rock*

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

Now there's a thought - what if the author offered it up for someone else to finish. Part fanfic, part opportunisty, part put up or shut up. That's generally my indicator that I'm not ready to give up my stories, I can't bear the idea of someone else finishing them. Odd attitude for a fanfic writer!

On the whole I think we're on the same page. *wafts freshly baked cookies in the direction of the rock to tempt you out.*

[irisbleufic.livejournal.com]

(We must be under the same rock *hugs* See Twitter, etc.)

As a writer, I try my hardest to finish things, but sometimes, for whatever reason, yes, life does get in the way. I have a Sherlock series to which I've been meaning to add another story for almost a year now, but between finishing a stressful degree, repeated illnesses, travel, and now a death in the family and a major trip to boot, I have no idea how soon I'll be able to finish. And I understand that some of my readers have been waiting a long time, and I appreciate that greatly.

Conclusion: shit happens, and no, we're not paid to do this. It's a labor of love. Entitlement is not your problem; it's the reader's.

[turkfox.livejournal.com]

I've got things I won't finish for all sorts of reasons - for example, a Merlin fic I started early in series 1. Now, three years on from that point, I still don't ship the pairing, only now I so don't ship it that I can't write any more - not to mention, the characterisation matches that early first season time I started and now the guys aren't like that. I still seem to get people following it though, but I don't feel guilt about not finishing it because I know whatever I'd write wouldn't be what they'd be looking for.

I don't think anyone has the right to demand completion of my work or anyone else's. I do it because I want to, because I enjoy it, and if I don't enjoy it I'm not going to take time out of my day to do it just to keep other people happy.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

That's interesting about characterisation; my crossover fic is very SG1 season 7 but in the meantime we've had three seasons and two movies radically shifting the characters. I'm not alltogether certain I could get the characters back where they need to be and align that with audience expectations.

Your attitudes are much healthier than mine. :) I have tended to think "RL has done such nd such to me" but literary/fandom/creative reasons are just as valid, and no-one can contest those, either, at the end of the day.

[pillow-face.livejournal.com]

Hmm I can understand why an uncompleted fic can be a real pain to the readers but I also understand that sometimes you get to a point in writing a fic where for whatever reason you seem to be incapable of writing any more.
I think sometimes readers forget that it can be annoying to the author as well cause I doubt anyone likes running out of inspiration/ motivation for their fic.

Personally I like the idea the kink meme (I believe it was them anyway) had where you can put your incomplete fic 'up for adoption' as it were.

That way there's still a chance of it being completed by someone with the motivation to do so.

[casey-bee.livejournal.com]

I agree. The "up for auction" idea is fantastic, especially if the old writer and new writer have a chance to swap notes.

[marysutherland.livejournal.com]

Can I suggest a slightly different view? The best analogy isn't really producer/consumer: it's pusher/addict. The people who desperately want you to finish a particular story want it because they're hooked on it, because it *matters* to them. It's not just an interchangeable commodity. Are you seeing readers' attitudes as entitlement, when it's really more something visceral along the lines of 'want, want, WANT shiny'? There are authors I love who have stopped writing. There are authors who I love who have died. But that doesn't stop me wanting them to have written more, if it was the good stuff, the hard stuff. There is a reason we're called fanatics, after all.

I've never posted a WIP, because my writing doesn't work like that: I have to have the whole thing written, at least in draft, to tie it together. But I've written stuff that people want sequels to. And sometimes I've felt able to do them and sometimes I haven't: it depends if I can see another story. But the reason people are wanting more is because they think it's good. It's as basic as that.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

Now I have a mental image of Holmes fic being read out piecemeal to desperate addicts in opium dens. Nice.

Briefly, bc my phone is dying: yes, I do see a difference. There are lines between "I want more, shiny!", "I want more, why isn't she delivering?" and "it was unfair (implies: wrong) of her not to finish this story." Sadly, I hear all of these around fandom.

*glares at red battery icon* more anon.

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

I'm notorious for WIPs. Sometimes I come back to them, sometimes I don't. Sometimes posting as I go helps me finish, sometimes it doesn't. When my life changes abruptly, well, things fall apart. I know it frustrates people.

Once, at least, I came back to a WIP five years later -- and there were still people who leapt upon the new chapters with delight. It's kind of stunning really. And there are authors I would do that for, stories I would fall back into as easily as breathing if there were more. But if there never is, well, to me half the fun of an unfinished story is spinning possibilities.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

well, to me half the fun of an unfinished story is spinning possibilities.

This, right here, is why we write.


I think something that has been a bit neglected in comments is that posting as you go really does help, it gives you a drive that sometimes your own tired brain won't allow.

[ginbitch.livejournal.com]

There's a very good blog entry by Neil Gaiman on this called "George R. R. Martin is not your bitch" (at least that's what it's come to be known as - sparked a minor controversy). Its here:

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-Issues.html

My view? In writing something, whether paid or unpaid, you are giving people a gift. Yes, it's great that people love it. But you don't owe them anything. I chew up rugs in fear that authors of my favourite WIPs won't finish it, but I'd rather have the fic with that fear attached than not have it at all. You can always choose not to read until it's complete, if it bugs you that much.

<3

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

I knew there was a post from him somewhere! I couldn't find it from Birmingham though. Gaiman has a hell of a lot more right than me to be cross about it, though. And I think in fandom there is more of a social contract between the author and the reader - we write predominantly for our friends and communities with potential to become friends, not for publishing to faceless authors all over the world. Possibly that sets up greater scope for the reader saying "hey, guy, how's that fic going?" although there are better phrases than "When are you posting more?! I need more!!" or "I am disappointed that you have not posted more frequently."

You can always choose not to read until it's complete, if it bugs you that much.
This, very much. The reader of a WIP takes a risk, same as the writer of a WIP. And it may be that if the WIP is tanking the author is a bit unnerved about continuing to post - my experience is that we, in fandom, are largely vulnerable people. Encouragement to continue should be encouragement, not bashing, and should be gentle if at all possible.

[xitheta.livejournal.com]

I think it would depend on the methodology of the writer.
As Gurthaew pointed out, JKR had an ending planned and as mentioned had a large fanbase and monetary incentives to complete her work.

In the case of a kinkmeme, while it is frustrating when a writer jumps ship on a WIP, RL should come first. None of us are participating for money after all, and not so many are written with an ending in mind.

I think that if a kinkmeme WIP is definitely going to be orphaned, the Author should offer it up for adoption. If it wasn't popular then few will mind the loss of it, and if it was then some other person will give it the love it needs.
On sites like FFN it's more difficult due to the posting style, but if the new author could liase with the OA about directing readers from the first document to the second then it would work.

As I see it, WIP dropping is like Author Existence Failure. if the original can't or won't finish, the work can be taken up by others. Eoin Colfer wrote "And Another Thing" in place of Douglas Adams, for example, Sebastian Faulks wrote a James Bond novel "as Ian Fleming" and I believe Antony Horowitz is penning a new Sherlock Holmes adventure with blessing from the Conan Doyle estate.

The precedent exists, so if the OA is uncomfortable with completing a work then by all means, readers, adopt and complete them for yourselves!

If on the other hand your Author is just hanging on until RL backs off a bit, keep the faith and don't grouse!

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

I agree, largely, with the adoption idea - we are fanfic writers and it should be second nature. However the parallel with AEF is inexact unless the author leaves fandom, because Douglas can't write us any more H2G2, but if you took up my Crossover I would see what you were writing. The dynamic there is challenging in different ways, both for the original author in letting go and in the new author for taking up the baton knowing full well that the original author is still there, and that everyone reading will compare them with the earlier chapters very explicitly.

That said, we spend our time writing stories based around other people's stories. Playing with one anothers' probably should not be so strange an idea.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels but have not love, I am but a sounding bell or a clanging cymbal...
I can never hear that passage without hearing Simon Callow shouting "good point!" a la Four Weddings.
/tangent

I'm seeing a very distinct divide between old school and new school fen, in that most of us younger ones (in fandom age, not chronological age) seem more open to the idea of using WIPness as a writing tool, not something to be ashamed of. It's a different approach, but that doesn't make it wrong, and I don't feel that fen with different expectations should require us to meet those standards. WIPs are pretty matter of course these days.

[dreamflower]

When I first began to read fanfic, I felt dreadfully cheated when a story fizzled out. I was "WHAT?" "WHERE'S THE REST OF IT?" Then I went through a phase of not reading WIPs.

Then I began writing. And I learned that the muse does not always cooperate. That real life can interfere. That other bunnies can jump in line ahead of what I planned to write next. I've never abandoned a WIP, but I've had some very LOOOONG hiatuses (is that a word?) As for other people's WIPs, I've learned to enjoy what I get when I get it. And to hope that someday they will come back to the story I was loving so much, and when they do, I will be ready to glomp it. I look on new chapters after a long dry spell as a lovely gift.

The author of my favorite WIP goes as long as two years between chapters. It's totally worth the wait.

I can think of a couple of favorite stories that haven't been updated in four or five years. But I figure as long as the author's still breathing, there's hope that sooner or later inspiration will strike like lightning, and the story will begin chugging along again.

Believe it or not, one of my own fears is that I will drop dead without finishing all my WIPs. Seriously, I worry about that!

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

That's a very legitimate fear! WIPs do wear on my mind, but some of them I have learned to set aside because trying to complete something that I physically couldn't was causing me harm.

I have been intending to pull Crossover offline for about six months now. But people have it followed, and there is a faint chance... do I withdraw it and eliminate that whole world? Or do I leave it there and give people likely false hope?

*shrugs*

[alltoseek.livejournal.com]

Penfold was lucky the author announced the WIP was being abandoned. At least there is no more useless hope!

It may be painful in the beginning but Penfold will get over it :-)

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

I suspect it has to do with differing expectations of fandom, more than anything. Different pockets of the internet have very different rules and the kinkmemes alone have a different set of etiquette to the rest of LJ that it is taking me time to get a handle on, and I have only dealt with internet fandom.

But yes, better that the author had the courage to say that and take the flak, rather than just letting it lie.

[shefa.livejournal.com]

Here via Irisbluefic. :) *waves

Reading a WIP entails a certain amount of risk, especially if it's clear that the author isn't already finished with the piece, but is posting as it's being written. There is something privileged (in my opinion) about being able to watch a story unfold, and to wait, to wonder, to imagine in the gap between installments (whether they be chapters or books). The desire for more reflects your reader's engagement with the story, but the demand for more reflects (I think) a lack of understanding of process in any sort of art.

I'm thinking out loud here. Wondering if some readers take the posting of a WIP as a sort of implicit contract that the story will be completed. No idea where they would get that idea. Just pondering. I know that when I first found fandom and stumbled upon my first abandoned WIP, I was completely confused. I think I hadn't yet realized that stories were posted in progress. LOL Of course, on the kink meme, it ought to be more obvious, but it's hard to say.

Anyway. I don't think the author has an obligation to finish a story that isn't working, or to force something if RL or the muse, or the canon changes make too difficult or unsatisfying as a writer. If we post WIPs, we're giving the readers a gift, letting them watch with us as the story develops. Sometimes, stories end earlier than we wish they would.

:)

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

*waves* Welcome!

There is something privileged (in my opinion) about being able to watch a story unfold, and to wait, to wonder, to imagine in the gap between installments (whether they be chapters or books).
I like this, very much. I also find that comments from my readers in WIP circumstances do inform the ongoing story, sometimes in little ways but other times with innocuous comments (or long detailed discussions) that throw the whole story into a different light. Maybe it's not the traditional way of writing but it's more fun than writing in a singular way.

Wondering if some readers take the posting of a WIP as a sort of implicit contract that the story will be completed. No idea where they would get that idea.
See sally_maria's comments: I think people do view it as a contract. But they need to recognise that that constitutes a risk, as much as a right, on that part, because no-one's going to force me (for example) to write work that would inevitably turn out substandard because my heart wasn't in it. That's no way to write.

[tweedisgood.livejournal.com]

It's all in the tone: "I really like this person's story, gosh I wish they had written more/will write more soon, I really do, I really wanted to see how it ended" - I have no issues. Entitlement ['X author owes his/her fans']goes a stage further and unless there was some sort of promise made, isn't reasonable for all the reasons you state.

But I will be mildly controversial. I'd never post something until it was finished,even a comment fic. Most of my stuff is relatively short so it isn't a huge problem, to me. Part of this is because I edit and re-edit compulsively and can't bear to send stuff out part-polished. But part of it is, yes, I write so others may read, and I want to send out something whole, not in part. Unfinished work stays on the hard drive.

Readers cannot reasonably "require" continuation/completion, but I personally feel a responsibility (and sometimes a wish) to give it. Slightly different.

Requests/begs for sequels, not so much, but I still try to oblige if the muse allows. Sometimes really good fics are written to request in one way or another.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

I'd never post something until it was finished,even a comment fic.

That is absolutely your right, and I really admire that approach. Personally I find a lot of value in writing through the feedback from readers, sometimes, while other times a story is mine and I alone will determine it. I do think there's great value in watching the drafting process through the kinkmeme, though, it's rather fun.

[ancalime8301]

This is an interesting question. I will freely admit that I have almost entirely stopped reading WIPs on shkinkmeme, at least in part due to how many I was reading that have been abandoned (or are on hiatus for the foreseeable future). Plus, a number of fics are updated only occasionally (like mine, haha), and I was having trouble remembering the multiple storylines of the many fics I was trying to follow. And if I'm reading fic, I can't be writing it. So my no-WIPs rule is as much about having time to write and being able to keep the fics straight as it is about avoiding the issue of WIPs that are never finished.

To avoid being one of the abandoned-WIP-writers (because, let's face it, I'm just as capable of that as anyone else -see my LotR fic that hasn't been updated for *years*), I don't start posting anything until I have written a significant portion of the fic or it's completely done. (Which is, largely, the result of my experience with that years-between-chapters fic.) Even then, updates on the unfinished fics depend on whether I've managed to write or not, since I don't like posting when I don't have more material already in reserve.

That said, I think unfinished WIPs are a normal hazard of fandom fic writing. Finding time and inspiration can be difficult even under the best of RL circumstances, and there are lots of people who don't have the best RL circumstances. Sure, as a reader it's very disappointing when a beloved fic is left hanging, but it helps to remember that life can suck and the muses can be fickle. Fanfic is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby; dragging yourself painfully through finishing a story just because you feel obligated to the demanding readers shouldn't have to be part of it.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

at least in part due to how many I was reading that have been abandoned (or are on hiatus for the foreseeable future).
I get that. I only follow things I've been recced to on the kinkmeme and that rarely, because it's such a chaotic place I struggle to negotiate it with any efficiency.

I don't start posting anything until I have written a significant portion of the fic or it's completely done.
That is a marvellous discipline, but it tends not to be how I work. Which may be my failing, but I don't think it's for my readers to dictate how I should write, either.

Fanfic is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby; dragging yourself painfully through finishing a story just because you feel obligated...
That is probably my key point. To a degree, fuck social contracts - if I'm not having fun, or seeing value in what I'm doing, then I don't think I'm going to waste my time continuing writing unless I'm being paid for it. Which I'm not, because I don't have original thoughts, just pastiches!

[ciaranbochna.livejournal.com]

I have a few things that are wip that I may or may not finish, since I am not sure where exactly I was going at the time. I find if I don't finish something as a one-shot, or a series of connected things that can be read alone, then I never will. Usually because I will be overwhelmed by the negative thoughts about what I have written, and come to loathe the end product..lol Probably why I avoid the memes I suppose.

I say this because I appreciate when someone gifts the world with their writing, and I know that it can be a Herculean struggle to let anyone see them so I never pester the writer. You cannot know what anyone else is going through, or how their process works. Try to find joy in what they have given you, and leave it at that.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

I will be overwhelmed by the negative thoughts about what I have written, and come to loathe the end product.
This is important. If we don't like what we're doing, or can't at least see value or literary merit in it, then forcing ourselves to write can be both painful and destructive, and no-one should take risks with themselves over fandom.

You cannot know what anyone else is going through, or how their process works.
Just so. Possibly if you don't write it's harder to understand that the how of writing is just as personal as the context and if you lose that place, try as you might, it can be impossible to get back. And whatever you think of the rightness or wrongness of WIPs, some of us work better that way.

[sally_maria]

I do think there's a distinction between venting in private about your disappointment that a story isn't being finished, and making demands on the author.

As much as yes, I do think that starting to publish a WIP creates some kind of expectation that the story will be finished, I also think that it is entitled to make demands of a specific author - to post the next part now, now, now, or to finish a story regardless of changed circumstances.

Feeling disappointed (maybe even a little let down) is surely a perfectly reasonable response to knowing that you will not be able to spend any more time in the world of the story? I may complain that my favourite show is cancelled maybe even on a cliff-hanger, is that automatically entitled? How you respond to that disappointment is where the entitlement lies.

I also tend to disagree about kinkmeme fills, I think they are one of the forms of writing where someone does have the right to feel cheated at an unfinished story - not every random reader, but the person whose prompt it is. Not as much as if it's a gift exchange, but the story is being written for that person, and a half-written story is very liable to discourage others from filling the prompt.

The suggestion that several people have made about releasing the story for someone else to finish might hopefully fix that problem - there's no guarantee, but a reasonable chance that the prompter will get their story finished.

In the end, what I think matters is that we treat each other with respect, both readers respecting authors and authors respecting their audiences.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

There absolutely a distinction. The Penfold example was one of many I've seen recently and I think when venting one should consider if they are speaking to someone to whom the comment could likewise apply. Like me, the failed author.

Of course disappointment is a reasonable response, and I don't actually include anyone I list as a friend in the people who behave badly - but hang around the kinkmeme, or FFN, or anything like that and there are a huge number of people who are willing to make those demands, which I find baffling. Disappointment yes, expressing that, yes, shoving the author, no. And if we're going to talk about social responsibility, if you're entering the reading process with a social contract in mind and it's very clear that the fic is a WIP (question mark chapter numbers, warnings for WIP, etc.) then maybe the reader has some responsibility not to read until it's complete if they know it's going to bother them.

I also tend to disagree about kinkmeme fills, I think they are one of the forms of writing where someone does have the right to feel cheated at an unfinished story.
I'm not on the same page as you with this, at all. If you go into a gift exchange then there is an obligation to deliver, certainly, and if you offer something as a thank you that is the same. *looks guiltily at the pile of stories she's supposed to be writing*. Kink memes are not quite the same beast, they're someone throwing an idea into the ether and waiting. If someone gets halfway through and realises that they can't get the fic to work the way they want, or they lose interest, or it's hurting them, they will frankly not be producing quality writing any more and I would consider shoddy work for the sake of words on the page just as unkind to the OP.

There is also the issue of not knowing what the OP will be like. Most OPs post thank yous, which is lovely. Others though try to steer or influence the outcome of the fic beyond their original prompt in every comment, which may work for you, but it may make the writing process very difficult to the point of impossible - and in an anon meme there's no way of knowing if you have that sort of OP.

Finally, yes, respect both ways. I don't know many authors, if any, who abandon a fic on a whim - if you start writing you've got a story to tell. On the large part I think most authors where they are named are much better about it than on the kinkmeme where if you post anon you can get away with it. But for the reader who doesn't right, it's possible that the reality of the time and emotional contributions that go into writing fics is absolutely immense doesn't quite register. Again, the demanding comments come much more on the kinkmeme where people can be demanding and rude without their name being registered.

I like the adoption idea, definitely. The day I come to terms with the fact that Crossover is dead in the water and I will never get it back, I will farm it out. I'm still holding onto a sliver of hope, although it will mean a pretty huge rewrite.

Finally, *hugs* because I saw on Twitter before my phone died that you'd had a rough day, and I didn't get the chance to say so.

[casey-bee.livejournal.com]

Personally, although I might be bitter if a writer doesn't finish a story, I have also been that writer, and so I understand. I have given up on a couple WIPs in my time because I have simply run out of enthusiasm for them, and I still feel guilty for leaving them but I know I was young and hadn't planned the stories as well as I should have and I had other things demanding my attention in RL so it had to be done. I think it's fine for a reader to ask if a story has been abandoned and the writer should respond, and if the answer is "yes" and especially if they give a reason, the reader should not question it.

My line is, if you're being paid to write then you have to finish, full stop. But there's two kinds of free (or more): when people are expecting something, and when people aren't. When people are expecting writing then you do it because it is your moral duty, there is no financial gain but you gain experience and brownie points, and that's good enough for me. BUT if this free writing (the expecting kind) distracts too much from my livelihood or anything I deem important in my life, then I have to draw a line, whether it's slowly down or stopping entirely. It's hard though because there is no golden rule of where that line is, and sometimes it's hard to see it coming.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

Asking is fine, although asking repeatedly and asking rudely are not. Part of this is my ongoing issue with a world that no longer says "please" and "thank you". /old fart

Moral duty is an interesting point. I do think there is a moral duty to the reader, and I also think there is a bit of a moral duty not to always clobber them to pieces without offering a tiny fragment of hope, at least, in your story. (That's why my darkfic is edged with light, which is a different conversation, I guess.) But there is also a moral duty on the part of the reader not to be rude to the author and if they cannot finish, to accept that graciously.

[alitalf.livejournal.com]

I think that the only reason to feel obliged to finish any writing is if you are being paid for it, and have already accepted an advance.

Even professional writers occasionally hit a brick wall and can't find a way to continue, though I expect they struggle hard to find a way through before accepting that.

Otherwise, fic is something conceptually for the benefit of all concerned. If it becomes the reverse of a benefit for the writer, that concept fails. The writer would presumably not expect a reader to finish reading something that she or he could no longer get to grips with? That would be easier than for the write to finish something that they no longer feel able to do, for whatever reason.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

I think there probably is a more subtle social nuance than that in the world of fanfic. But, you're right, it's got to benefit the author as well as the reader.

That's a very interesting point about not expecting readers to go all the way through with a story, although I don't think it's an exact parallel. Will have to think more about that one.

[sally_maria]

Okay, just as devil's advocate - not so much what I believe, but what I think is behind some of the complaints I see.

Publishing part of a story is taking part in a social contract, a promise that you will carry it through to the end. Otherwise, you shouldn't be posting part of it. Not finishing it is breaking that promise.

I think most people who have that attitude come from a fandom background where posting WIPs at all is considered slightly dodgy, not the thing real writers do. The idea of starting to publish a story without knowing exactly where it's going is anathema to them in first place. It's just comment-grubbing, without willingness to put in the work to "write properly"

As I say, an attitude based on a particular understanding of how fanfic ought to work.

[gayalondiel.livejournal.com]

Publishing part of a story is taking part in a social contract, a promise that you will carry it through to the end

With whom have you made that contract? If you very clearly label something as a WIP, there is a responsibility on the part of the reader to recognise that it is not a complete piece of work, understand that life gets in the way, the muse sometimes doesn't play, and either take the risk or leave it until it's completed.

It's just comment-grubbing, without willingness to put in the work to "write properly"
That, as a writer who has on occasion thought "I have no idea if this works, if people will like it, and I can't face the thought of slogging my guts out for weeks months years on it before finding out if anyone beyond me gives a crap," is actually quite offensive. If I were comment grubbing I'd write porn 100% of the time. Different writing is not improper writing and one of the joys of kinkmeme fic is seeing the drafting process take place in public with the author later de-anoning, cleaning it up and posting a finished version. You wouldn't get that in a fanzine, but if you want fanzine styles, read fanzines.

how fanfic ought to work.
That is one of the main reasons I am rejecting fandom more and more these days. Yes there's ettiquette involved in LJ, but imposing a strict set of rules so you can demand how other people operate their creativity, like a critic or publishing house, but not actually paying them in the way a publishing house would, is a little bit fucked. Who chooses how it ought to be, and what makes them more right than me?

Again, the reader is on the other side of that social contract. If you don't want to risk the break, don't read the WIPs.

[i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com]

I so agree about this. Of course I feel bad about my unfinished fics, but what can I say? Sometimes it's just hard if the muse left already.