[personal profile] gayalondiel_bak
In Buffx 1.02 "The Harvest" when Buffy goes to get her supplies (and gets grounded) she has a case full of vampire fighting stuff like crosses and holy water, stakes, and a big jar of communion wafers with no indication of whether they had been consecrated.

In Dracula, one of Van Helsing's key tools is using the Host to keep vampires from moving from place to place and of course burning Mina on the head. I was just wondering, is that a nice nod to Van Helsing or do we ever actually see Buffy use the Host against any vampires?

G xx

Date: 2014-01-08 10:21 am (UTC)
emperor: (Phoenix)
From: [personal profile] emperor
My knowledge of Buffy is far from encyclopaedic, but I don't think the Hosts ever get used; the Holy Water is given to Andrew at one point in S7.

Date: 2014-01-08 11:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gayalondiel.livejournal.com
Of course, yes - is that the same actual bottle? Presumably they have a friendly priest - although in Supernatural they got around that by saying anyone with a rosary could bless water and make it holy.

Date: 2014-01-08 11:53 am (UTC)
emperor: (Phoenix)
From: [personal profile] emperor
I've no idea, but I suspect they re-used the prop ;-)

Date: 2014-01-08 12:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Presumably they have a friendly priest

I don't know -- they never mention it, and in fact, for all the churches, they almost never show religion at all. I assumed either the "holy water" they had was "water from a particularly holy spring, bought off eBay", a relic more than usual holy water. Or that someone just walked into a church and asked or just took some from the fount -- there's no particular restrictions, are there?

Date: 2014-01-08 11:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gayalondiel.livejournal.com
Maybe not - I always imagined that an organisation as old and powerful as the Watchers' Council would have networked with the Church or Churches to ensure a ready supply. Going back to the Dracula origin of a lot of popular legend, I have always assumed holy water is holy water.

Date: 2014-01-08 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
The show's never closely examined Christian theology, I don't expect that much consistency on how holy objects affect vampires. I don't recall Buffy ever actually using them, but I imagine she might have used them off-screen in ways similar to in Dracula.

Even though the show doesn't quite state this, in my head, different anti-vampire weapons have different strengths and weaknesses to explain why they don't just use the best one all the time. Eg. maybe crosses are good at holding vampires off temporarily, but not good for actually winning fights, and holy water is like acid, powerful, but inconvenient in a fight. So maybe hosts have some specific role like partially barring entrance to a house, but that's just my speculation.

Date: 2014-01-08 11:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gayalondiel.livejournal.com
I think you're probably right on two points - firstly that the show is inconsistent and second that the holy objects all have their places. The need for Hosts is diminished in Buffy as apparently (apart from Dracula himself) the need to rest on the vampire's home soil is removed, and the Host is largely used for placing in places to act as a vampire repellent - a bit like garlic (also not really used, I think?) but more effective. Mina's burn is the only other use, so as vampires don't need to sleep somewhere particular it's not as useful.

Of course, it's not clear if the wafers are consecrated or are there just in case they need them. Having a big jar of reserved Host is probably the most useful for Buffy but my inner catholic is balking at the idea of it being carried around unceremoniously in a trunk for seven years. If they have a pet priest then they might be holding onto the wafers in case the circumstance arises where they need to block a vampire from somewhere in which event they would get him to say a quick Mass?

I don't think that thought is as coherent as I thought it was going to be.

Date: 2014-01-08 12:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Of course, it's not clear if the wafers are consecrated or are there just in case they need them

I suspect the writers didn't even consider the question, but in-universe, I think it could easily be either.

Either Buffy got hold of them pre-consecrated and is holding onto them until she needs them and will try to get them blessed, or until they find a priest. Or a priest once gave her some post-blessed wafers, and she's saving them until/in case she needs them.

I agree (even as an atheist) I don't like treating revered objects casually, but also, if there's a significant chance it might save someone's life, I think God would prefer that risk. I also think the important thing may be if Buffy values them: if she knows they're precious and need to be disposed of respectfully if necessary, then I think the ceremony comes second as long as she keeps them safe. Whereas if "thrown in a trunk" means she is cavalier with them, then I don't like it :)

Date: 2014-01-09 08:54 am (UTC)
emperor: (Phoenix)
From: [personal profile] emperor
Just after Willow finds her dead fish in s2 (Passion, perhaps?) she goes for a sleepover with Buffy. There's a shot of them in a garlic-festooned bed holding stakes. I don't think it sees much use otherwise, though.

Date: 2014-01-10 02:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gayalondiel.livejournal.com
Good point. And pleasing too; garlic is most significant in Dracula when it is used to protect Lucy Westenra in her sickbed.

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